Discussion:
[squeak-dev] Including build instructions for the VM in the online help?
Eliot Miranda
2018-10-31 18:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,

someone just asked for build instructions for the VM. It strikes me
that it would be useful to include this in the VM General tab of the About
Squeak tool. But we'd have to parse the VM to find out if it was an
opensalltalk VM, PyPy VM, Graal VM, SqueakJS VM, Interpreter VM etc. Are
the other VM builders interested in adding info for their VMs? If we go
this route we could also put a pointer to the About Squeak tool in the Help
tool.

P.S. I suggest doing the equivalent on Pharo too.
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
tim Rowledge
2018-10-31 18:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eliot Miranda
Hi All,
someone just asked for build instructions for the VM. It strikes me that it would be useful to include this in the VM General tab of the About Squeak tool. But we'd have to parse the VM to find out if it was an opensalltalk VM, PyPy VM, Graal VM, SqueakJS VM, Interpreter VM etc. Are the other VM builders interested in adding info for their VMs? If we go this route we could also put a pointer to the About Squeak tool in the Help tool.
Perhaps simpler would be a brief paragraph and a pointer to a swiki page where the reader can learn about the variety of possible VMs and further pages for each one? Less to put in the image, easier to update out of band etc etc.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; ***@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Resistance is
H. Hirzel
2018-10-31 19:06:27 UTC
Permalink
I understand that the proposal is to generate the build instructions
("build instruction assistant") based on the particular VM running the
image on a particular OS.

I.e. if I am on a Linux 32 bit system I get the build instructions for
my particular system.

I do not need to read through difficult to understand wiki pages and
maybe deal description inaccuracies and maybe even have and copy/paste
errors.

+1 for this proposal

It might be a loadable package though through SqueakMap. But then
referenced and introduced in the help system.

--Hannes
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
Hi All,
someone just asked for build instructions for the VM. It strikes me
that it would be useful to include this in the VM General tab of the About
Squeak tool. But we'd have to parse the VM to find out if it was an
opensalltalk VM, PyPy VM, Graal VM, SqueakJS VM, Interpreter VM etc. Are
the other VM builders interested in adding info for their VMs? If we go
this route we could also put a pointer to the About Squeak tool in the
Help tool.
Perhaps simpler would be a brief paragraph and a pointer to a swiki page
where the reader can learn about the variety of possible VMs and further
pages for each one? Less to put in the image, easier to update out of band
etc etc.
tim
--
Eliot Miranda
2018-10-31 19:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi Hannes,
Post by H. Hirzel
I understand that the proposal is to generate the build instructions
("build instruction assistant") based on the particular VM running the
image on a particular OS.
I was thinking of something simpler. If one opens the About Squeak dialog,
then in the VM General tab one would see something like

Virtual Machine
---------------
/Users/eliot/oscogvm/build.macos64x64/squeak.cog.spur/Squeak.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Croquet Closure Cog[Spur] VM [CoInterpreterPrimitives
VMMaker.oscog-eem.2461] 5.0.201810311748
Mac OS X built on Oct 31 2018 10:50:28 PDT Compiler: 4.2.1 Compatible Apple
LLVM 7.0.0 (clang-700.1.76)
platform sources revision VM: 201810311748 ***@Aeolus.attlocal.net:oscogvm
Date: Wed Oct 31 10:48:56 2018 CommitHash: 6fee3a7 Plugins: 201810311748
***@Aeolus.attlocal.net:oscogvm
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2461 uuid:
b3cd33f5-6309-43a1-b669-7a1805111f34 Oct 18 2018
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2464 uuid:
0b1fa0a3-a781-4fd5-b1cf-1809796ccbbf Oct 18 2018

To Build A Similar Virtual Machine
---------------------------------------------
Visit https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm; obey the Clone or
download instructions, then read the HowToBuild file in the top-level build
directory for your platform(s), e.g. build.macos64x64/HowToBuild.

Hannes, including anything more than this means duplicating information and
increasing maintenance load. As it is, this will have to be changed when
we reorganize the opensmalltalk-vm. So to keep things manageable IMO we
should include the build information in opensmalltalk-vm and just include
pointers to that site form the image. Since there are other VMs in use it
would be good to have pointers to build information for all of them.

Tim, re a Swiki page, I think that's also more maintenance effort. The
Swiki VM documentation is woefully out-of-date and disorganized. I';d
prefer to see it replaced by pointers to properly self-documented and
up-to-date repositories.
Post by H. Hirzel
I.e. if I am on a Linux 32 bit system I get the build instructions for
my particular system.
I do not need to read through difficult to understand wiki pages and
maybe deal description inaccuracies and maybe even have and copy/paste
errors.
+1 for this proposal
It might be a loadable package though through SqueakMap. But then
referenced and introduced in the help system.
--Hannes
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
Hi All,
someone just asked for build instructions for the VM. It strikes me
that it would be useful to include this in the VM General tab of the
About
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
Squeak tool. But we'd have to parse the VM to find out if it was an
opensalltalk VM, PyPy VM, Graal VM, SqueakJS VM, Interpreter VM etc.
Are
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
the other VM builders interested in adding info for their VMs? If we go
this route we could also put a pointer to the About Squeak tool in the
Help tool.
Perhaps simpler would be a brief paragraph and a pointer to a swiki page
where the reader can learn about the variety of possible VMs and further
pages for each one? Less to put in the image, easier to update out of
band
Post by tim Rowledge
etc etc.
tim
--
Resistance is useless! (If << 1 ohm)
--
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
tim Rowledge
2018-10-31 19:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Tim, re a Swiki page, I think that's also more maintenance effort. The Swiki VM documentation is woefully out-of-date and disorganized. I';d prefer to see it replaced by pointers to properly self-documented and up-to-date repositories.
If there's a better place then we should absolutely use it; and maybe update the swiki to point to that instead. I totally agree about the lamentable state fo too much of the swiki. I try to fix bits every now and then but more input from more people would always be nice to see.

tim
—
Give a man a compliment, he’ll feel good for a day.
Teach a man to fish for compliments and he’ll never feel good enough f
David T. Lewis
2018-10-31 19:41:51 UTC
Permalink
+1

That is a great idea.

Dave
Post by Eliot Miranda
Hi Hannes,
Post by H. Hirzel
I understand that the proposal is to generate the build instructions
("build instruction assistant") based on the particular VM running the
image on a particular OS.
I was thinking of something simpler. If one opens the About Squeak dialog,
then in the VM General tab one would see something like
Virtual Machine
---------------
/Users/eliot/oscogvm/build.macos64x64/squeak.cog.spur/Squeak.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Croquet Closure Cog[Spur] VM [CoInterpreterPrimitives
VMMaker.oscog-eem.2461] 5.0.201810311748
Mac OS X built on Oct 31 2018 10:50:28 PDT Compiler: 4.2.1 Compatible Apple
LLVM 7.0.0 (clang-700.1.76)
platform sources revision VM: 201810311748
Date: Wed Oct 31 10:48:56 2018 CommitHash: 6fee3a7 Plugins: 201810311748
b3cd33f5-6309-43a1-b669-7a1805111f34 Oct 18 2018
0b1fa0a3-a781-4fd5-b1cf-1809796ccbbf Oct 18 2018
To Build A Similar Virtual Machine
---------------------------------------------
Visit https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm; obey the Clone or
download instructions, then read the HowToBuild file in the top-level build
directory for your platform(s), e.g. build.macos64x64/HowToBuild.
Hannes, including anything more than this means duplicating information and
increasing maintenance load. As it is, this will have to be changed when
we reorganize the opensmalltalk-vm. So to keep things manageable IMO we
should include the build information in opensmalltalk-vm and just include
pointers to that site form the image. Since there are other VMs in use it
would be good to have pointers to build information for all of them.
Tim, re a Swiki page, I think that's also more maintenance effort. The
Swiki VM documentation is woefully out-of-date and disorganized. I';d
prefer to see it replaced by pointers to properly self-documented and
up-to-date repositories.
Post by H. Hirzel
I.e. if I am on a Linux 32 bit system I get the build instructions for
my particular system.
I do not need to read through difficult to understand wiki pages and
maybe deal description inaccuracies and maybe even have and copy/paste
errors.
+1 for this proposal
It might be a loadable package though through SqueakMap. But then
referenced and introduced in the help system.
--Hannes
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
Hi All,
someone just asked for build instructions for the VM. It strikes
me
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
that it would be useful to include this in the VM General tab of the
About
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
Squeak tool. But we'd have to parse the VM to find out if it was an
opensalltalk VM, PyPy VM, Graal VM, SqueakJS VM, Interpreter VM etc.
Are
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
the other VM builders interested in adding info for their VMs? If we
go
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
this route we could also put a pointer to the About Squeak tool in
the
Post by tim Rowledge
Post by Eliot Miranda
Help tool.
Perhaps simpler would be a brief paragraph and a pointer to a swiki
page
Post by tim Rowledge
where the reader can learn about the variety of possible VMs and
further
Post by tim Rowledge
pages for each one? Less to put in the image, easier to update out of
band
Post by tim Rowledge
etc etc.
tim
--
Resistance is useless! (If << 1 ohm)
--
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Elio
Stéphane Rollandin
2018-10-31 20:11:46 UTC
Permalink
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